Lately I've noticed that the results at Google are not as good as they used to be. SEO experts have been getting better and better at breaking higher into Big G's search results with ad-only pages. At first I thought it was just me who noticed, then I read this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/01/google_spam_infiltration/
All great Search utilities have ultimately succumbed to SEO pages.. Excite, AltaVista, Webcrawler.. The crushing weight of all comers wanting into the algo. It's hard to stop the tide.. Google has held the beach for a long time but the tide is beginning to turn.
This is ultimately good for domain names as a higher percentage of disenfranchised Google users opt out of the search-engine framework to simply type the domain name versions of their searches into the browser address bar. Even I've been typing more search query style domains lately and I've been pleasantly surprised by the higher quality of domain name pages and small websites than I saw just a few short years ago.
The evolution is palpable... to me anyway.
Frank,
Give http://search411.com another try. It has thumbnails now too, which allows people to pre-judge the quality of the sites listed. :)
Posted by: Drewbert | October 02, 2007 at 10:47 PM
Frank, You need to write up about Google Proxy hacking. It is still a major problem and google is either unwilling or simply unable to fix it. http://www.seofaststart.com/blog/google-proxy-hacking
Posted by: VS | October 02, 2007 at 10:52 PM
Where does the surfer go once they type in every domain name related to their query, only to have "results with ad-only pages" returned?
Posted by: Jesse | October 02, 2007 at 11:58 PM
Blogged on domainerSEO.com "Frank is commenting on the fact that SEO experts have successfully pushed commercial sites into the top ranks of Google, and hoping that people will give up on Google and type a word with a ".com" on the end into their address bar instead. I'm still not convinced that lots of people do that."
Posted by: Leonard Holmes | October 03, 2007 at 12:17 AM
I doubt the seo Experts would bother to rank blank pages of ads Frank, they are the newbies. Sorry but it just makes an seo expert look stupid, no?? Same PR problem as the domainer.
Posted by: Ben Wilks | October 03, 2007 at 01:01 AM
Off target.
If someone feels that search engines like Google are giving poor results, it is illogical to assume they will type in a generic or relevant domain name instead and go to a site they don't know.
That is less relevant than the worse Google search by far.
Posted by: Joseph | October 03, 2007 at 01:36 AM
Lately?...LOL
How about for at least 1.5 - 8.5 years.
I know it might be minor (to some)...but why is the first two listings for the keyword 'frank':
1.Frank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2.Frank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
??
Or the first two listings for the keyword 'SEO'
1.Search engine optimization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2.Search engine optimization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
??
This is considered a 'good search engine' with... results like this?
Should not the first listing in any search engine for the keyword 'frank'...be: frank.com ?
Should not the first listing for the keyword 'SEO'...be seo.com ?
oh,
But I guess they must need more:
Page Rank, SEO, backlinks,incoming links,outgoing links,site map in the right order,meta tags,no meta tags,page density,keyword density,a certain aged site status, etc,etc...
And... can not violate any of 10,875.54321 obscure algorithm rules that Google sets arbitrarily for themselves.
WOW!
Can I please,please,please be in 'your search engine...I promise I will spend 16 hours of my day (or pay someone) making sure I get all of the above correct...
___
And another thing...LOL
Anyone ever ask themselves why a good search engine has to 'boast' it has more websites and pages index than anyone else on the planet? 90 trillion or whatever?
What? Why?
Is Google MacDonald's?
Numbers like this 'count'... if your selling 'big macs'...waste of time, money and space if your an internet search engine.
Last time I checked in the last 8 years or so...you only need to have 'maybe' 20-40 listings per any search.
When is the last time you went past page 2 for any search?
Only one example...LOL
Just a thought.
I need to stop now or am going to blow a fuse...LOL
Peace as always!
Dan
Posted by: Dano | October 03, 2007 at 10:18 AM
Sorry...I forgot.
Ask any 'white hat', 'grey hat', 'black hat' SEO'er...
How hard it is to keep say just a few sites in Google were you want them at all times. Much less building a huge network of them (ad sites) and keeping them in.
Talk to the guys (there is a bunch of them out there now) that were making 15k - 150+K a month with adsense sites...only to wake up one day and have 70%-95% of this income gone and gone for good...victims of Googles famous 'algorithm'.
Owning direct 'typein' traffic domains (which you do...just a couple...lol) is the only way to be in total control.
But,
If search was done correctly, and websites would be index correctly, without ever losing their position in a search and you did not have to jump through a thousands hoops everyday just to 'try' and stay in that position in their index...
then you would have something...real stable, controllable 'search income' to go along with your stable 'direct navigation' income.
So, if you were/are making 3 million a month in 'direct navigation' to your domains...Indexed correctly and for the next 100 years in the same spot in the right search engine...this income could easily be 3x-10x more.
Not possible you say?
Maybe not...
For sure its not possible if you (anyone, not just you Frank) want to spend all your life trying to dance with 'Google's algorithm" ( I realize some people make a lot of money doing this...this dance.)
or
Just maybe...there is tons more internet search money to be made...without having to 'dance' with Googles 'algorithm's... 24/7/365
Peace!
Dan
Posted by: Dano | October 03, 2007 at 11:01 AM
Dano you sound rather angry.
Why should SEO.com be #1 for 'SEO'? Just because it is the domain? Perhaps your opinion is that SEO.com is the #1 site for SEO - does everyone have to share that opinion? I Just went to SEO.com and it was rather keyword-stuffed. Wikipedia's page on SEO is far more useful to me.
'Frank' is a silly example - there are multiple meanings for the word 'Frank'. Searching for 'Frank' shows a shortcoming in the ability of the searcher to translate from thought to words. Why is it Google's fault you cant be more clear with what you want? Or is it somehow suppoused to read your mind?
As for Google's obscure algorithm rules - nothing is stopping you from using an alternative or building your own.
Next up - boasting pages. Google stopped boasting about the # of pages indexed a long time ago. In fact, the last company to really mention the # of pages indexed was Yahoo.
Anyway - domainers are far too obsessed with Google. Joseph was quite right - how exactly is a page full of ads more useful than the Google results? (especially since so many parking companies use Google).
Posted by: AhmedF | October 03, 2007 at 05:58 PM
Hi AhmedF,
Thanks for your reply.
I will try and answer your points the best I can.(from my endearing prospective...lol)
First I am being a bit 'vague' for two reasons.
One, I cannot just put down exactly what I think on this subject and all the details...because at this time it would be rather foolish of me...as I do a have an ultimate goal to hopefully obtain concerning Internet search and internet address's(domain names), which entails a bit more than posting on Franks blog. Which Frank knows I love to to do...its a great blog...best one to come along in years.
Two, my post about Google or any internet search engine, is just right now to provoke a little thought...thats all. Granted I look at this subject matter a LOT different than most SEO'ers, webmasters, domainers etc...I do not know if this is bad or good...it just is.
OK....
"Dano you sound rather angry."
I would say 'frustrated' would be a better word. About almost everything concerning this subject matter. Mainly though, I would say the huge 'imbalance' between Internet search (google) and domain address owners and their assets. What Google provides any website or domain owner, is not even close to being in balance to what those same website or domain owners bring to the table. And it does not matter if you tell me... because of Google you are making 10 Million a month in profit or whatever...your still getting short changed, and at anytime you could get pretty screwed over...as far as a sudden drop of income or traffic.
___
""Why should SEO.com be #1 for 'SEO'? Just because it is the domain? Perhaps your opinion is that SEO.com is the #1 site for SEO - does everyone have to share that opinion? I Just went to SEO.com and it was rather keyword-stuffed. Wikipedia's page on SEO is far more useful to me""
Why does it have to be #1?... because its the #1 domain address for the search term "SEO". Might it NOT be the #1 site right now as far as helping you specifically..no... and it may not have the best information or best resources 'currently' for a domain of this quality...absolutely!
How many searches do you do in Google and the website in the #1 spot in your opinion should not be there?. I may think its #1 or not...Frank might think its the best or not. Thats life, thats never going to change completly....everyone is always going to have their own and differring opinions.
___
So, Hypothetically...if i was running a SE...it would not be in the #1 spot (today) SEO.net might be (today) because the content and information at SEO.net is 1000% times better...or...if seo.net has just ads for 'toothpaste' at SEO.net...then maybe the content at SEO.org is much better, and that site would be in the #1 spot for the keyword search 'seo' (for today)
But, 3-6 months from now, after someone buys SEO.com for say $5 Million dollars...LOL ( Hypothetically) and puts another $5 or $10 Million dollars into the development of SEO.com...it would no doubt hold the #1 spot in my SE for the keyword 'seo'. And it would hold that spot with no page rank, no algorithm, no BS at all. Why, simply the best Internet address for that keyword with quality content. Thats all that should be required from a website and domain address's.
__
Hypothetically...of course...lets say my SE is currently getting 100,000 searches a day for the keyword 'seo'. The SEO.org is ranked in the #1 spot, because out of the three 'currently' (.com .net .org) its the only site out of the three that has great content and resources for the keyword 'seo' and is getting 75% of the traffic from those 100,000 searches. Now, you being the young enterprising person that you are...you know about the SEO.com deal, and within 3-6 months they are going to have a state of the art website, dedicated to everything that is 'SEO' and without a doubt, this site will be ranked in the #1 spot in my search engine, with the .org dropping to the #2 position. Which will result in SEO.com getting SEO.orgs traffic. You say to yourself...'self'...I bet if I buy the domain SEO.net and make it as good if not better than seo .com...I could get the #2 spot in this SE, and get almost ALL the remaining 25% of traffic thats not going to the .com and maybe even take a big chuck of traffic away from the SEO.com folks...because people feel what I have to offer is much better.
What has just happen to the domain address SEO.net...has it not become hugely move valuable, might it now be worth many many more times than what you had to pay for it, including development cost? Because you have a quality website with a quality domain with content that matches the domain and keyword search...this site would be ranked #2 in my SE for the next 100 years, no backlinks, pagerank...nothing.
Might not this 'scenario' get repeated for maybe a million or so quality domain names out there...imagine...value created by just unleashing the true inherent value of domain address assets....is Google going to do this for all legitimate domain address and websites with good to great content?
They have done it for a small percentage...but nothing close to what needs to be done.
Not having to rely on 'Googles algorithm' to set the value of YOUR domain address & website assets when it comes to internet search...what a new concept!
Now, YOU...the 'Domain Address & Website Asset Holder' are in total control of YOUR business and YOUR assets...NOT Google..were your subject to all THEIR..Algorithm, backlink, pagerank,.why did my site go from #2 position to #8 position...and I lost 75% of my traffic bull-shit. (again frustration...not anger...lol)
As for: 'Wikipedia's page on SEO is far more useful to me' , thats fine you can keep using Google for all your Internet searches, 'Wikipedia' has taken over Googles index for almost every keyword search. But why use Google, if thats the information you like and want? Why not just go to 'Wikipedia' directly and do your searches there.
__
""'Frank' is a silly example - there are multiple meanings for the word 'Frank'. Searching for 'Frank' shows a shortcoming in the ability of the searcher to translate from thought to words. Why is it Google's fault you cant be more clear with what you want? Or is it somehow supposed to read your mind?""
I did not say it was Googles fault that the searcher was not more specific in their request. But, why should a 'Wikipedia' result be shown in the #1 spot? It may or may not have anything the user was thinking of when he did this keyword search...To me, Its as arbitrary as showing the website listing frank.com and depends solely on what content is on frank.com ...granted the content on frank.com may or may not meat the searchers needs, but if you had a PPC website on frank.com that cover the many possible topics...i would say that it would be a better site to go to 'refine' your serach, than going to 'Wikipedia'...at the least...just as good.
__
""As for Google's obscure algorithm rules - nothing is stopping you from using an alternative or building your own.""
Just a few minor things...I really am not that smart...Do not know or have the select few people around me to attempt what I think should be attempted and pretty soon. Google and the rest of the SE's have made no progress in creating a better SE or creating Continued Value and stable income for domain address holders and website owners in the last 6 - 10 years...\n fact, they have left a hole so big in this Interent search thing...Google to busy becoming the next Microsoft/Apple...that 10 years from now, Internet search is just going to be 'sideline' business for them. Yahoo & MSN are hopeless. what we have to wait 15-30 years from now until all the 'smart' people perfect some sort of 'natural language' search function? Don't hold your breath.
Think back 6-10 years, why and how did Google 'win' the internet search war? It won it because it was considered different, a free bird, not a huge US corporate conglomerate trying to control everything you do on the Internet and having a million ads on every search page and email.
IMHO, The world needs a new 'google' now for the next 10-20 years. But just a bit different than when they won everyones heart,mind and money...thats all.
__
""next - boasting pages. Google stopped boasting about the # of pages indexed a long time ago. In fact, the last company to really mention the # of pages indexed was Yahoo."
Ok, you win...so they don't 'boast' anymore...my bad.
I will just say that... sometimes it may not be what you included in a SE that makes it a great SE for everyone ...somtimes it may be what you leave out that ends up
making it a great SE for everyone.
___
""Anyway - domainers are far too obsessed with Google. Joseph was quite right - how exactly is a page full of ads more useful than the Google results? (especially since so many parking companies use Google).""
Thats what I am kinda getting at...The thinking that if its not "useful to Google" its not useful to me, you or to the millions of other people doing internet search on a regular basis is wrong...and ... I beg to differ...Could be quite "useful' to the domain address holder" if it has quality content ads, realted directly to the domain address and to the keyword used in the search and in turn be very useful to internet searchers. I will decide what i think is useful to me...not Google.
If you have a quality PPC type website at the domain: CaymanIslandlawyers.com and you wanted to be in the #1 spot in my SE...you have it...and for the next 100 years and you do not have to jump through a bunch of hoops everyday, or worry that your income is suddenly going to drop, because I had a bad day or night, and I decide to adjust or tweak my "algorithm"
My SE Rule requirements:
Best Internet address for that keyword with quality content. Thats all that should be required from a website and domain address to be ranked in the #1 spot for that search.
It's really a bit more complicated than this, I am more than just a little aware that 'quality' has to abound at almost every website or no one is going to be doing much searching at my SE.
----
This is a very, very simplified summary of what I think as it relates to adding much more value to internet search and at the same time correcting this huge imbalance of power, Google and others have and are exerting over everyone else's assets, (asset Google does not own) simply because the had a good idea 10 years ago and now its the only game in town.
This, you have to play ball in 'google field' only was and is a great idea for Google...was it or is it a great idea for domain address holders and website owners...if your asking me...NO.
It gets way more 'complicated" after this, but certainly not so complicated or expensive that it cannot be done. In fact its going to be done...just a matter of a little time and bit of creative thinking.
I would relate it this way: The domain industry is only in the 2nd or 3rd inning of a 9 inning game right now. the Internet search industry is in the 3rd or 4th inning of a nine inning game. To get both of these industry's to and through the next couple of innings within a reasonable period of time, (that being hopefully before I die...LOL.)...
A few people with some 'real' vision need to step up to the plate and really swing the bat. Some have and are trying to do this in the domain industry now...but plenty of more room on both ball clubs for more players that can really hit the cover off the ball.
Now, is what I have in mind...something that will move both industry's at the same time forward through the next couple of innings? Not sure. Are any of my thoughts or ideas on either one of these industry's worth more than a $ 6.00 cup of coffee at Starbucks? maybe or maybe not...
A ton of apparent obstacles present themselves... and I cannot say I have solved 100% of them, but I 'think' I have solved the largest ones already, and the rest will also be solved with just a little thought and creativity.
Just a little 'food for thought'...
Again, these thoughts of mine on this subject...only represent a small piece of my puzzle, but I hope its enough to get SEO'ers, Domainers, Website owners etc...at least considering the remote possibility that google,yahoo,msn have it at least partly wrong...and maybe they just might have it almost completely wrong.
The only thing i know for sure, you will not see a post like this, anywhere on this planet! LOL
Peace as always!
Dan
BTW: Among the many, many other
things that there is to take into account for this 'Hypothetical search engine',I
also have a huge way to monetize this SE...without having to use ads. I thought it might be important for the owners of this 'Hypothetical search engine' to make some serious 'non-hypothetical' money...lol
BTW2: This 'Hypothetical search engine' would to many reading this post total shock use a "algorithm" just in a totally different way then Google or anyone else uses one for Internet search. It would also use a few other essential search engine tools...but again, just in a completely different way.
Posted by: Danno | October 03, 2007 at 11:13 PM
Hi,
I missed going to Drewbert's post about http://search411.com/
Went to the site after my post.
Somewhat on the right track I would say...
Maybe 2-5% of the way there. But at least its not another Google,Yahoo or MSN.
I like the 'thought' behind it.
BTW:
MSN and Yahoo are almost no longer Internet Search engine first...they are now and have been for a while 'destination' sites with a search engine to go along with many other things.
Google is headed that way, and before long it will be a 'destination' website with just a search engine along with many other things.
Can the Internet handle a 'pure' search engine in the future?, I think so.
Thanks for posting that link Drewbert.
Best,
Dan
Posted by: Danno | October 04, 2007 at 02:31 AM
I can instantly recognize a parked page when I see one. I'm sure Google can learn to do the same and automatically exclude them from the results. This would benefit the public tremendously, but wouldn't it also impact Google's bottom line, since many parked pages display Google ads?
Posted by: DomainerPro | October 04, 2007 at 07:40 PM
DomainerPro,
"I can instantly recognize a parked page when I see one. I'm sure Google can learn to do the same and automatically exclude them from the results. This would benefit the public tremendously, but wouldn't it also impact Google's bottom line, since many parked pages display Google ads?"
---
No.... In fact Google has dropped 100's if not in the thousands of 'adsense users in the last 12 months. People making from 5k a month to people making over 100k a month.
---
"I'm sure Google can learn to do the same and automatically exclude them from the results."
__
They have been doing (trying) to this for almost 3 0r 4 years now.
And, now are VERY successful at eliminating even the most clever sites...built for just PPC income or built just for income off adsense.
Google can shoot down thousands of websites displaying Google ads without blinking an eye...been doing it for the whole year of 2007.
Speed up your thinking...because your way behind the 'curve'...
Peace!
Dan
Posted by: Danno | October 05, 2007 at 09:35 AM